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mq
user #70145
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subject: lulled
i think the right is trying to lull the left into believing that McLame is such a poor end loser that they will win by a land slide. that would take many young or stoned, or busy running businesses liberal off out of the polling stations. if we think we have it in the bag we will lose for sure as many of us will be to busy or just plain forget to vote. you forget that the 80+% majority of under 100k a year people in America are either too busy making rent or too stupid to realize that the right wing does not have their best interests at heart.

the truth is, if you make less than 200k a year and pay taxes you are a democrat by default. but the right wing uses wedge issues based on morality like abortion to close the 80/20 gap. yes their are people in America that are known as "one issue voters" that the right wing preys upon. gun control, abortion, and gay rights are the rally cries that the GOP uses to solidify its base, in order to get people to vote against its own interest. they of course have no intention to do anything about these issues because then they would have nothing to rally their base with. for six years of the last eight the GOP has been in control of the three branches of our government, for the most part, and did they use that to make any permanent concessions to their base? no! they used it to secure more money for the top 20% or less of our society.

don't be lulled into a false sense of security. they want to make liberals belive we have it in the bag! don't forget to vote, our econmy depends on you!



drink rum, ski off cliffs
message 6781/7249 2008-09-05 21:40:07 [save my place] [reply]
homeslice
user #9142
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subject:
Someone spray painted over the Obama sticker on the rear window of my car.



Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
message 6782/7249 2008-09-06 12:47:31 [save my place] [reply]
grasshead
user #56133
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subject: re:
in reply to homeslice in message #6782:
Then replace it. :D




Take that as you will.
-[alpha]{BETA}[delta]
message 6783/7249 2008-09-06 13:34:58 [save my place] [reply]
homeslice
user #9142
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subject: re:
in reply to grasshead in message #6783:
I'm going to.

Had to clean spraypaint off my rear window. I'm pissed.



Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
message 6784/7249 2008-09-06 14:06:39 [save my place] [reply]
outzider
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subject: re:
in reply to homeslice in message #6784:
You're in the home state of John Fucking McCain. What do you expect? Sun and desert?

Oh, right.

- oZ
the guy your mother knows as "your dad" [blog] [lj]
message 6785/7249 2008-09-06 14:46:59 [save my place] [reply]
grendel
user #2419
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subject: re:
in reply to homeslice in message #6782:
You know, according to the Patriot Act, that counts as an act of terrorism.



:Grendel:
As usual, my statements will probably be misunderstood and offend someone.
message 6786/7249 2008-09-06 15:17:45 [save my place] [reply]
mq
user #70145
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subject: re:
in reply to homeslice in message #6782:
that sucks. i have noticed people driving like assholes a lot more since i put mine on. i live near north idaho so i hear n**** lover from time to time as well.

the other day one of my co-workers said "y'know he's a muslim right" i reply "no he is not, he is christian" then they puke up this bile of stupidity "but his father was, and y'know, that sticks with you, them muslims hate us"

it didn't dawn on me exactally why this pissed me off so badly untill later, they were implying that a muslim shouldn't be president. that is outright racist. this person has lost what respect i had for them.



drink rum, ski off cliffs
message 6787/7249 2008-09-06 22:03:06 [save my place] [reply]
paradox
user #2731
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subject: re: Who said what about who?
in reply to grendel in message #6775:
What I get tired of hearing is Obama's claims for change, no practical plan for achieving them, and no experience to convince me that he will be able to develop a plan and execute it once he is in office.

I am not saying that McCain is or is not any better at those things. I am saying I wish people would quit referring to Obama as the second coming of Jesus Christ.




"If you don't like it, you can shove it. But you don't like it; you LOVE it."
-- Rivers Cuomo,
"The Greatest Man That Ever Lived", Weezer (the red album)
message 6788/7249 2008-09-07 11:33:36 [save my place] [reply]
paradox
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to mq in message #6781:
I think the left is trying to lure voters into believing that we need more government hand-outs, increased taxes on corporations in a [left proclaimed] troubled economy that will somehow not drive jobs and investment money outside the U. S.

I think the left is trying to convince people that an immediate pull out of Iraq won't leave an entire nation in a power vacuum. The right may have blindly gone in to fight the war, but the left will be the ones to abandon the Iraqi people to the vultures.

I think the left doesn't stick behind any issue that isn't currently popular, so it's hard to nail them down on anything that would evoke any negative reaction from the reality TV consumer generation.

I think the left LOVES to make broad sweeping anti-establishment statements about the need for CHANGE without any clear definition of what CHANGE will entail, how it will be enacted or paid for. I swear their campaign sounds like a goddam Rage Against the Machine melody.




"If you don't like it, you can shove it. But you don't like it; you LOVE it."
-- Rivers Cuomo,
"The Greatest Man That Ever Lived", Weezer (the red album)
message 6789/7249 2008-09-07 11:49:33 [save my place] [reply]
homeslice
user #9142
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subject: re: Who said what about who?
in reply to paradox in message #6788:
You have to be kidding. He's laid out his entire policy platform. Did you not listen to his speech?

Are you incapable of looking at his website?

Jesus Christ, man. Just because something isn't force fed to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm sorry if this comes off as hostile, but the ONLY real criticism that Obama has is this, and it's so easily squashed.



Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
message 6790/7249 2008-09-07 12:09:16 [save my place] [reply]
homeslice
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to paradox in message #6789:
I think you like making broad generalizations without having any actual evidence for your claims.



Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
message 6791/7249 2008-09-07 12:12:19 [save my place] [reply]
outzider
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subject: re: Who said what about who?
in reply to paradox in message #6788:
You sound like a pundit. ;) And it's only the pundits who make fun of Obama as 'the messiah' or 'the second coming of Christ'.

Obama has a pretty clear plan for how to change things. He has introduced over 150 bills into the US congress to detail the changes that are needed, not counting what he's done at the state and local level in Illinois and Chicago. His entire platform, clearly laid out, is available on his web site available for anyone to review. He has an even larger document coming out soon detailing even further how he plans on shifting how the US government is going to be involved and hands off in your life, but we haven't seen that yet. The structure is there, though. If you do a little research and stop relying on stump speeches from either party for your facts, you'd realize that there is a practical plan, and a ton of his actions to back up that plan.

- oZ
the guy your mother knows as "your dad" [blog] [lj]
message 6792/7249 2008-09-07 12:30:51 [save my place] [reply]
schwul
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subject: re: Who said what about who?
in reply to paradox in message #6788:
What I get tired of hearing is Obama's claims for change, no practical plan for achieving them, and no experience to convince me that he will be able to develop a plan and execute it once he is in office.

Homeslice is right that Obama's website details his plans. However, even if you don't care to educate yourself on the details, the fact that he is the first major party-nominated candidate for president to turn down ALL lobbyist money (and that upon becoming the nominee, he got the DNC to RETURN all lobbyist donations) speaks volumes. If taking action to make a future Obama administration responsible to millions of Americans instead of special interest groups isn't changing politics, I don't know what is. Everyone else can talk about it all they want, but Obama has already implemented pretty major change.



-schwul

tongue-tied and twisted just an earthbound misfit, i
message 6793/7249 2008-09-07 12:35:03 [save my place] [reply]
grendel
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to paradox in message #6789:
Sorry, but you lost whatever chance you had of me taking you seriously when you said "left proclaimed troubled economy."


You and McCain may think the economy is sound, but the millions of people who can't find jobs, don't have health insurance and are losing their houses while Exxon posts record shattering profits and Haliburton continues to pad Cheneys retirement fund...well, we know better.





:Grendel:
As usual, my statements will probably be misunderstood and offend someone.
message 6794/7249 2008-09-07 13:07:58 [save my place] [reply]
genipher
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subject: re: Who said what about who?
in reply to schwul in message #6793:
as far to the right (well, center) i've drifted in several respects....

all they do is slam obama for turning down public funding. "flip-flopper!" whoop de do... the stance he's taking on special interest groups is HUGE, unprecedented, the most respectable thing i've seen a politician do, and i am hoping to see this make its way into the debates and SLAM the opponent.

have you seen "thank you for smoking"? we should watch it soon.

message 6795/7249 2008-09-07 16:18:24 [save my place] [reply]
paradox
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to grendel in message #6794:
I never said that I did or did not believe the economy is troubled. I didn't figure my personal impression of the state of the national economy would really be relevant in this case. The particular phrase you picked out was simply citing a source that most readers here might take somewhat seriously. The (largely Democratic) left DOES actually say that the current state of our economy is problematic. I don't see an issue with pointing this out, unless of course you don't trust their opinion?

I also never said I was satisfied with the current rate of unemployment. Maybe we can start a discussion on this board of the economic pressures on the unemployment rate, it may prove interesting. *shrug*

I also never specifically mentioned (in my last post at least) my objections to centralized health care. What I DID comment on was my question as to how it would actually be paid for. The answer obviously being tax dollars, so the subtle question comes down to how many tax dollars, and what tax rate changes would be required to cover it? Without oversimplifying the issue, I think that would also involve another lengthy discussion.

I'm not sure how Haliburton, Cheney, (or any other entity we may share ire toward) would affect my comments about Obama, unless we were talking about, oh, Obama. But since you brought it up, it seems you assume that I don't take issue with either. I don't think I make the perfect image of a liberal zombie who agrees with all the hate speech printed about our VP, but I will tell you honestly that I am not satisfied with Cheney's behavior over his term in office, and I am not completely ignorant to what corporate entities the current administration appear to be in bed with. I am glad that there are term limits, and cautiously hope that America will have a chance to reflect on our current leadership and make adjustments rather than knee-jerk reactions. But only time and an election will really tell.

I actually have never said I liked McCain, either.




"If you don't like it, you can shove it. But you don't like it; you LOVE it."
-- Rivers Cuomo,
"The Greatest Man That Ever Lived", Weezer (the red album)
message 6796/7249 2008-09-07 18:27:36 [save my place] [reply]
grendel
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to paradox in message #6796:
The problem is that, in your attempt to be unbiased, you have moved factual information into the realm of political propaganda.

Saying that the economy is in bad shape does not make someone a liberal zombie, nor is it an attempt by the "angry left" to draw voters. It is simply a statement of fact. The economy is significantly worse off than it was eight years ago. Unemployment is up, creation of new jobs is down, average salaries are down, and so on. But the people responsible for these things dont want americans to talk about them, so they have dragged them into the gray area, of topics that can be a matter of opinion. Not only is that false, it's pretty damn insulting.

You made a comment earlier in the thread about people thinking Obama is "the second coming of Christ". I don't think that, at all. (Though, in truth, I don't think that Jesus Christ, should he return, would actually be the 'second coming of Christ', as people imagine it, either.) The man has a lot of flaws, and has started doing things that really upset me lately, in the name of politics. For example, he has changed his mind about drilling off-shore, which I vehemently oppose, and he has recently said that the surge has worked, though he quantified his statement some. Now, I understand the way the game is played, and I recognize that he has to walk a fine line if he wants to be president. I also understand that none of us will ever get everything we want out of our government (especially considering most americans want things that contradict each other). So I am willing to accept his flaws because he is not only better comparatively, but more promising than I really thought I'd see in a person who had an actual chance to be president.

As others have mentioned, his tax plans are laid out clearly on his website. Now not everyone will agree with the plan, and that's fine. But if you watched the Republican National Convention, they barely mentioned the economy. They avoided it like the plague. Partially because they know they fucked it up in the first place, and partially because they don't really have a plan to fix it. There is too much disparity between the classes, but they can't say anything that threatens the tiny minority that are doing well, because that's where they get all their support from (see others' posts about Obama, RE lobbyist contributions).

So by all means, continue to vet both candidates. But if it is your M.O. to do so in an unbiased way, as it seems to be, than be careful that you aren't letting one side frame the debate. You can disagree with 'the left's' opinions all you want, but don't add that tag to something that is factually acurate.

Unless, of course, what you are trying to say is that things that are factually acurate are the message of the left, and the right wing spews constant bullshit. In which case, carry on. :)





:Grendel:
As usual, my statements will probably be misunderstood and offend someone.
message 6797/7249 2008-09-07 21:03:15 [save my place] [reply]
grendel
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to paradox in message #6796:
The problem is that, in your attempt to be unbiased, you have moved factual information into the realm of political propaganda.

Saying that the economy is in bad shape does not make someone a liberal zombie, nor is it an attempt by the "angry left" to draw voters. It is simply a statement of fact. The economy is significantly worse off than it was eight years ago. Unemployment is up, creation of new jobs is down, average salaries are down, and so on. But the people responsible for these things dont want americans to talk about them, so they have dragged them into the gray area, of topics that can be a matter of opinion. Not only is that false, it's pretty damn insulting.

You made a comment earlier in the thread about people thinking Obama is "the second coming of Christ". I don't think that, at all. (Though, in truth, I don't think that Jesus Christ, should he return, would actually be the 'second coming of Christ', as people imagine it, either.) The man has a lot of flaws, and has started doing things that really upset me lately, in the name of politics. For example, he has changed his mind about drilling off-shore, which I vehemently oppose, and he has recently said that the surge has worked, though he quantified his statement some. Now, I understand the way the game is played, and I recognize that he has to walk a fine line if he wants to be president. I also understand that none of us will ever get everything we want out of our government (especially considering most americans want things that contradict each other). So I am willing to accept his flaws because he is not only better comparatively, but more promising than I really thought I'd see in a person who had an actual chance to be president.

As others have mentioned, his tax plans are laid out clearly on his website. Now not everyone will agree with the plan, and that's fine. But if you watched the Republican National Convention, they barely mentioned the economy. They avoided it like the plague. Partially because they know they fucked it up in the first place, and partially because they don't really have a plan to fix it. There is too much disparity between the classes, but they can't say anything that threatens the tiny minority that are doing well, because that's where they get all their support from (see others' posts about Obama, RE lobbyist contributions).

So by all means, continue to vet both candidates. But if it is your M.O. to do so in an unbiased way, as it seems to be, than be careful that you aren't letting one side frame the debate. You can disagree with 'the left's' opinions all you want, but don't add that tag to something that is factually acurate.

Unless, of course, what you are trying to say is that things that are factually accurate are the message of the left, and the right wing spews constant bullshit. In which case, carry on. :)





:Grendel:
As usual, my statements will probably be misunderstood and offend someone.
message 6798/7249 2008-09-07 21:03:36 [save my place] [reply]
grendel
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to grendel in message #6798:
damn, sorry for the double post



:Grendel:
As usual, my statements will probably be misunderstood and offend someone.
message 6799/7249 2008-09-07 21:03:56 [save my place] [reply]
paradox
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subject: A look at Obama's plan
Nationalized Health Care
1. "If you are one of the 45 million Americans who don’t have health insurance, you will have it after this plan becomes law."
2. "If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less."
Is it wrong for me to find that statement 1 makes statement 2 misleading?
3. If you already have health insurance, you likely have a job that pays you enough to afford it, or your employer provides it.
4. If you fit either category in 3, you likely also pay taxes.
5. Taxes will pay for #1 and #2.
6. Corporations are not self-sacrificing for the greater good.
7. Based on 5. and 6, corporations will either find a loophole to get out of the tax burden, move out of the U.S., or take other measures to reduce expenditures to compensate for the change.
8. Based on 5 and 7, at least SOME of the tax burden will be passed on to tax payers. I find it highly unlikely that this will be paid solely by the upper class, considering the numbers you are dealing with on 1.

[Obama] will also challenge the medical system to...
Challenge. Any time I hear this I have to wonder where that can possibly go. This means that health care institutions will have to take the initiative to actually implement his challenge, and if they do, there will be an associated cost to implement. Last I checked, costs are paid with money, which again eventually is paid by... you can draw your own conclusions.

Reform Medical Malpractice:
Obama will strengthen antitrust laws to prevent insurers from overcharging physicians for their malpractice insurance and will promote new models for addressing errors that improve patient safety, strengthen the doctor-patient relationship and reduce the need for malpractice suits.
This on the surface sounds like a great idea. Malpractice suits are a huge drain on the health care system. The U.S. tends to be sue-happy, doctors do make mistakes, and insurance companies end up paying the bill. If there is not a change in actual malpractice suits but insurance companies are forced to change what they can charge for policies, they will be forced into bankruptcy. Reform of this nature would require the Judicial system to reform malpractice procedures. Last I checked, the President shouldn't have any influence on the Judicial system. You know, that whole thing about guaranteeing checks and balances of power in our government. Good idea? Absolutely. But the President actually should be the last person on earth to make the mentioned changes happen.

Obama
will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, including electronic health records, and will phase in requirements for full implementation of health IT.
OMG, this is insane. I work in IT. My last job was as a software development manager, and we frequently worked with health care institutions to develop software that complied with HIPA and other regulations regarding healthcare IT. $10 billion dollars a year will not even scratch the surface of taking health care paperless on a national level. $10 billion dollars won't even cover the cost of the infrastructure investments necessary. This would mean that the costs would fall back to the health care institutions, meaning in the long run increase in health care costs. And that's all ignoring the fact that Obama is using $10 million of our dollars to begin with. I would laugh, but this is just too INSANE.


Economy

"I'm in this race to take those tax breaks away from companies that are moving jobs overseas and put them in the pockets of hard working Americans who deserve it."
Again, this is another great sentiment. At surface value, what sounds wrong with this statement? Put dollars back in our pockets, and hurt the big, bad corporations. The unfortunate truth about corporations is that they aren't going to selflessly bend over and take it from the government. They will naturally (in the purest free-market capitalist sense) attempt to find a way to offset this. And if we are talking specifically about corporations that off-shore labor... well, they already have a precedent set for cutting costs, don't they?

"And I won't raise the minimum wage every ten years - I will raise it to keep pace so that workers don't fall behind."
Yet again, another sentiment that sounds good. But if you know anything about macroeconomics, there are direct relationships and a delicate balancing act for the Fed (not the President, the Fed) between minimum wage and interest rates with the unemployment rate, inflation, and other economic stability indicators. Without careful consideration and control of the variables that we can control from the former, you can have devistating results from the latter. So the promise of raising the minimum wage alone doesn't say much to me about improving our economy, it just sounds like vote pandering.

Without having to quote every reference to Obama's plan for labor and unions, Obama's proposed approach is to make it easier for employee's to unionize, and put restrictions on the actions corporations can take in response. Again, in theory this sounds good. Unions historically have made many improvements for the workforce. Unions unnaturally affect the balance of supply and demand for labor; on the one hand you DO want to improve the lives of workers, but ALL workers. The flip side of Unionization is that demand for labor will go down, meaning that unemployment will go up, either though mass layoffs or simply disincentives to new businesses or business expansion. I simply would need to read more details about Obama's plan to somehow magically give Unions more power without some check in place to keep the labor market from becoming pressured in the direction of increased unemployment.

Expand the Family and Medical Leave Act: The FMLA covers only certain workers in businesses with 50 or more employees. Obama will expand it to cover businesses with 25 or more employees.
This change will put small-to-middle sized businesses at a huge disadvantage, where incidentally the negative affects of losing staff are felt much more harshly than in a larger corporations that has a larger labor base to absorb the effects of FMLA. Have you ever had a job where a co-worker had to go on leave? For an extended period of time? Did your life suck having to pick up the slack? You can bet small business employers feel it, too. This will serve to encourage small businesses to sell out to larger corporations due to competitive pressures and the hit to their already stressed bottom line.

Retirement Security
Obama plans to stop all efforts to privatize Social Security. This means increasing the Social Security tax. The plan proposes raising the cap on income that can be taxed by SS, I am sceptical to see how far that bar will have to be raised in order to make up the difference for a system that will continue to be drained by the aging baby-boomer generation. Will Obama have to concede his pledge to protect SS, or raise the percentage of the SS tax across the board? I'm not saying that the SS problem is easy to fix; I just think that it is irresponsible to make promises at a solution without a practical answer to how it will be funded. I don't see any "change" from past Presidential promises, from both parties, at solving the SS problem.


Restoring Fiscal Responsibility
Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for bycuts to other programs or new revenue.
Will Obama's pay-as-you-go policy apply before, or after, all of the new policies mentioned in his plan? Just askin'.






"If you don't like it, you can shove it. But you don't like it; you LOVE it."
-- Rivers Cuomo,
"The Greatest Man That Ever Lived", Weezer (the red album)
message 6800/7249 2008-09-07 22:05:05 [save my place] [reply]
paradox
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subject: re: lulled
in reply to grendel in message #6797:
I know that I post a share of propaganda from one side of the debate, I just think that it is a side that is rarely supported or argued on this board. Call it devil's advocate if you will, or a bit of frustration that I am, in fact a minority here. My frustration can sometimes lead me to mirror the left propaganda I see show here.

See, the thing is I don't really have a problem with people who have a rational, well thought out reason for voting for Obama. My wife is. And there are people on this board who I respect, even though I disagree with their political ideas.

What I don't like is seeing some of the garbage that is being thrown around during this campaign from BOTH camps. I don't NEED to harp on McCain; there are plenty of people here who are already doing that for me. What I DO is try to call people when they make statements that I feel are not factually supported, or a misrepresentation of the facts, or purely an irrational argument, etc. If people misinterpret some of my more sarcastic efforts, I guess I'll have to work on that.

Not an excuse, but I also have to recognize in myself that real life demands takes away from my time that could be spent writing more elloquent and persuasive arguments, and vice versa. I guess I will have to work on that. Either refrain, which is disappointing because I miss the old days when I had more time to be involved here, or find a way to invest more time into WTF. I'm sure i'm not alone in that sentiment.

I'm sorry if I lost your respect, if so I guess I will have to work to regain it.

Who will I vote for this election? *shrug* I am so pissed with the political system at this point, I'm not sure if I can in good conscience vote for anyone at this point. If I do, I will have to weigh all of the facts available (fewer and further between) and vote with my conscience. And that's all I can hope that everyone else here will do as well. If I can become more informed by listening to your thoughts, interpretations and ideas, I only hope that maybe someone will eventually glean a little of the same from me as well.




"If you don't like it, you can shove it. But you don't like it; you LOVE it."
-- Rivers Cuomo,
"The Greatest Man That Ever Lived", Weezer (the red album)
message 6801/7249 2008-09-07 22:23:11 [save my place] [reply]
mq
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subject: the biggest reason
the single biggest reason to vote Obama is...

the ageing members of the supreme court! i don't think ginsberg could hold out for four more years.




drink rum, ski off cliffs
message 6802/7249 2008-09-07 22:28:01 [save my place] [reply]
spadeinfull (-2) - subject:
outzider
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subject: re:
in reply to spadeinfull in message #6803:
Her speech was just shy of fucking crazy. It's amazing some of the shit that comes out of her mouth, but it's obvious now that she's a froth-at-the-mouth neocon, completely throwing away what was left of the Republican party.

- oZ
the guy your mother knows as "your dad" [blog] [lj]
message 6804/7249 2008-09-10 12:01:59 [save my place] [reply]
mq
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subject: palin
palin cinches the McCain toss away theory. it sounds like she actually likes to get things done, granted they are extreme right wing nut job things, but i digress, and that is exactly the last thing the right wants, is too actually get things on their agenda done. think about it. the right controlled a majority and the white house for all but eight of the last thirty years. and in that time did they absolutely out law abortion? or finalize any gun owner protection? no! of course not, they need those "single issue voters" to keep marching in goose step to further their actual agenda.

drink rum, ski off cliffs
message 6805/7249 2008-09-11 21:29:49 [save my place] [reply]
the_bob
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subject: re: palin
in reply to mq in message #6805:
Ya think? (I tried to find a version similar to what I read in my local paper, but this one looked good.)

Palin is setting up a alliance system that will lead to another world war. It is frightening to be honest. She wants to add Georgia and the Ukraine to NATO. Which would cause NATO to go to war* with Russia. That is a BAD idea. Russia's army might have inferior armaments, but they more people willing to die in a war*. It is a bad idea.

She also can't seem to keep her lies right. What is she backtracking on this week? *rolls dice* God damn it! I rolled a critical fail so it looks like global climate change!

It is confusing campaign created around attracting the single issue voters. "I can't vote for someone who is pro-choice, I must vote republican." (BTW, Pro-choice means you can still say no.) The sad part is, it could be effective.

* War: Call it a military action or whatever, it is still war. You can wash it, PC it, spin it, or rick roll it, it is still war.

Okay, I'm spent, anyone got a smoke?


Bob,
--
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
message 6806/7249 2008-09-12 08:34:46 [save my place] [reply]
mq
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subject: palin
noticed how she dropped out of the lime light for a little while after she was announced as the presumptive nominee? that would be because she was in one of those "legally blond"-esc cram sessions with people like Carl rove, learning what to say and how to say it like a good little puppet. i wonder just how long she will be willing to go along with all the bull shit she will have to recycle over and over again. she like to harp on the fact that she has principals, like being unwilling to abort a child even when its faced with certain deficiencies, before she has to turn to drugs or is found curled up in a ball crying.

she might see past the bull shit and regret what she is doing, or she is just an empty headed puppet, i hope she is just a little naive and will snap out of it right before November. something tells me she was a little sheltered as a child and being kept in small communities most her life shaped her view of reality to believe this crap, but she might snap out of it. lets hope. but she might also find that she is on the side with all money, and her "pure as the driven snow" morals will soften melt away.

Obama as an elitist.
OK so i am not the smartest guy in the world, but i am smart enough to know that when someone smarter than me tells me to do something, it is in my best interest to do it. i don't get why republicans are painting the picture of "over educated liberals" as such a bad thing. are there really people in America so dumb that they consider themselves better fit to be in charge because they are not educated? i under stand why republicans stand united against college funding and education and such, most college grads vote dem, most areas around institutes of higher learning are blue. most states that have a college capacity to population ratio that creates a majority of higher educated citizens are generally liberal. but outright fighting putting smart people in charge? that just seems like a bad idea.

drink rum, ski off cliffs
message 6807/7249 2008-09-12 09:07:41 [save my place] [reply]
grasshead
user #56133
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subject: re: palin
in reply to mq in message #6807:
-"noticed how she dropped out of the lime light for a little while after she was announced as the presumptive nominee? that would be because she was in one of those "legally blond"-esc cram sessions with people like Carl rove, learning what to say and how to say it like a good little puppet."

Ya' think? Because she is a female (and probably slutty) version of out current president. What do you think happened with Bush in 2000? :D

-"i don't get why republicans are painting the picture of "over educated liberals" as such a bad thing."

The reason for that is simple. What are the majority of Republicans? "All I is need to know are the Bible, and I get that from Priest-guy. So I is not needing to be edumacated. And I want me candidate to be just likededed me!" Yeah, and the sad thing is, I have actually met a couple peeps like that.




Take that as you will.
-[alpha]{BETA}[delta]
message 6808/7249 2008-09-12 13:56:09 [save my place] [reply]
grendel
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subject: re: palin
in reply to mq in message #6807:
"are there really people in America so dumb that they consider themselves better fit to be in charge because they are not educated?"


Yes. And a fucking LOT of them.


I'm not saying there aren't people whose best interest would be served by voting for McCain. But if everyone actually voted for the person who would best serve them, this election would be something like 70%-30%, and the previous 2 elections would have been even more lopsided than that. Instead, idiots vote for 'who they want to have a beer with', and 'people I can relate to cause they're like me'. I like to think I'm a smart guy, but if they can't find someone smarter than me to be president, there's a fucking problem.

I personally have no problem feeling like the president is talking down to me, as long as s/he is also looking out for me.







:Grendel:
As usual, my statements will probably be misunderstood and offend someone.
message 6809/7249 2008-09-12 22:12:07 [save my place] [reply]
the_bob
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subject: so...
I saw my first McCain commercial tonight. This is interesting because I am in Canada eh. The one thing that hit me about this was that the commercial's idea was based upon the Obama-Biden being four more years of the same. That he is unready for the leadership role. Now what gets me is that this implies that the Bush administration is unready, and is inadequate for the country.

Interesting that the Republican party is lambasting itself to try to inch ahead by a quarter point. It is pathetic.

Bob
--
The universe dances to its own music.
It is not for mortal men to know the tune or to call the dance.
All one can do is pray that they do not get stepped on.
message 6810/7249 2008-09-12 22:29:52 [save my place] [reply]

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