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kurrok
no longer a member
subject: no subject
Politics?!? What the fuck?!? Polititians are all ass holes!!! Just look at our president, Hilary!

message 1/7249 1999-12-20 07:07:08 [save my place] [reply]
brianregs
user #2345
4 posts
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subject: no subject
in response to kurrok:

there not all assholes....some are worse....some are movie stars for that matter....some are porn stars too... some care and some dont... some lie and some steal....some are probably honest... thats only if your an optimist though...
message 2/7249 1999-12-20 16:19:25 [save my place] [reply]
snafu168
user #2577
1 posts
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subject: no subject
in response to kurrok:
no they are not assholes, we need assholes.
They are hemmorhoids
message 3/7249 1999-12-21 19:26:09 [save my place] [reply]
copybitch
user #51093
401 posts
1 karma points
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subject: no subject
What do politicians and most ad sales reps have in common? You can ask them a question, and they can talk for 30 minutes all around the question and never give you a straight fucking answer.

Oh, wait...maybe I should have posted this under, "my day was fucked up because"...
message 4/7249 1999-12-23 00:52:32 [save my place] [reply]
spiral
user #67931
46 posts
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subject: no subject
If pro is the opposite of con,
is progress the opposite of congress? (Mark Twain)

- @
message 5/7249 1999-12-26 08:23:02 [save my place] [reply]
no1youknow
user #51849
34 posts
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subject: no subject

Politicians suck because most of them do not uphold the most basic premise
of their oaths of office. That they will uphold the Constitution of the
United States of America.

The first ten amendments to the Constitution are known as the Bill of Rights.
The Bill of Rights enumerates certain rights which are neither granted by
nor derived from the government. These rights are granted by God/Allah/Brahma/Nature
and they include the right to defend yourself and your life. The BOR simply
states that these rights are not to be infringed by the Government. The
BOR limits the power of the government. It does not grant rights to the people.

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is listed as the second amendment. If this or
any other of the original ten amendments should be rescinded, the government
would become invalid. It is the second amendment which is the backbone and
the protector of the other nine. If the government should try to take away
any of our other rights, the second amendment is there to protect the people
from the oppressive government. The framers of the Constitution had just
fought a war against an oppressive government and did not want to become
subjects of a distant, unresponsive government.

Many states have similar, simpler words in their state constitutions.
For example, a common one is "The people have a right to keep and bear
arms for their security and defense." Most states do not mention militias
or standing armies in their constitutions, just the right of self-defense.

People who are agains gun-owners are known as anti-gun or anti-violence.
What they really are is anti-self defense. They would have you completely
disarmed and at the mercy of the government for your security. Notice that
the most vocal of anti-self defense people are rich, powerful polititians,
celebrities, journalists, etc. These people can afford to hire security guards
to defend them. In the instance of Congressperson Dianne Feinstein, she
is totally against people having the right to defend themselves and their
families from violent criminals. But the hypocrite has a license to carry
a concealed weapon. Apparently, she should be allowed to defend herself, but
you can't.

There are more than 200 million guns in the United States, and less than 1%
of them have ever been used to commit a crime. For every crime commited with
a gun, there are between 4 and 5 instances of a law-abiding citizen using
a gun (usually without shooting) for self-defense. Most laws that are called
"common sense" restrictions or "anti-violence" initiatives, or "safety oriented"
are simply restrictions and infringements on the law-abiding gun-owner.
None of these supposed "gun control" laws have ever been shown to stop or
decrease violence by criminals. The more than 80 million gun-owners in the
United States of America are sick of government intrusion into their private
lives, while ignoring the real problem. Violent criminals.



OK, I have brought up many points which some may agree or disagree with.
Let's have some "REAL" politial discussion now!! I'm suited up in Nomex
and ready for any and all replies/rants/flames/etc.

Let's Go!!
message 6/7249 1999-12-27 10:33:43 [save my place] [reply]
auroraskye-jax
no longer a member
subject: no subject
in response to no1youknow:

ok here's how i see your view on people who are anti-gun so to speak. I am very anti-gun and here's why: GUNS ARE FOR WIMPS. I'd love to see all these damn pro-gun people act so tough with a sword in hand. Those were the days when there was no such thing as a stray bullet hitting a kid playing in the yard. The days when you actually had to watch the anguish of another human being as you slayed them. The right to bear arms impedes my right to feeling safe... but you know what wimps seem to be in charge. oh yeah--- FUCK THE NRA
message 7/7249 1999-12-27 12:12:26 [save my place] [reply]
no1youknow
user #51849
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in response to auroraskye-jax:



OK auroraskye, you may be correct. I might be a wimp. I do not go around looking for fights. In my opinion, guns (when used as a weapon) should be used purely for defensive purposes. Unfortunately most badguys don't hold this opinion. Guns are the "great equalizer." If a bad guy breaks into my house to terrorize/rape/maim/kill I have a fighting chance. At the very least the odds will be even. If a badguy would try to terrorize/maim/rape/kill you, you would be at their mercy. Do you really think that your golf club/knife/bat/pipe wrench will do anything against a badguy with a gun?



I think that when the badguys have so many guns and innocent kids are getting hit by their stray bullets while playing that something needs to be done. Don't misunderstand me, pro-gun means that I am pro-self defense, not pro-violence. The problem isn't people like me with guns, the problem is violent criminals mis-using guns. I agree that something needs to be done to keep these people from getting guns. Like keeping them in prison, or the National Instant Check System.



As far as watching "the anguish of another human being as you slay them," I have never had to do that and I hope that I don't ever have to. But believe me, I would rather watch a would-be rapist in anguish over being shot than I would watch my mother being raped and strangled. How about you?



I don't feel safe without the right to bear arms. Who is to say that you are correct with the opposite viewpoint and I am wrong. Apparently you don't value the sanctity of life very highly if you are unwilling to fight to defend the life of your family or yourself. The natural right to defend yourself is guaranteed by the constitution of the United States of America.



The message that I get from you is that it is more acceptable that a woman be found naked, abused, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose than to allow that same woman to defend herself with a gun.



Comments?

message 8/7249 1999-12-27 20:14:21 [save my place] [reply]
heathen
user #7410
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Guns suck! Americans need to realize that if NO ONE had them, NO ONE would need them! I lived in Japan for 9 years (Okinawa, actually) and the cops there didn't even have guns! Everyone got buy just fine, and guess what?? They aren't all fat pigs there either-- probably because they stay in shape so that they can protect themselves rather than depending on their lead penis extensions!!!!!!!!! So many of our constitutional rights are fucked with on a daily basis, and judging by the fact that millions of people in our country possess, use, conceal, kill with/ die from guns constantly (not to mention LEGALLY) The right to bare arms is one right that could have gone unstated (at least in my opinion).What about all of the other ways that we are continually fucked by the system?? Guns are tolerated because they make people feel powerful--as long as they are feeling powerful.... BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! YOU GET MY POINT! Besides, if the majority really ruled, I could go to Wal-Mart, buy a gun AND pick up a bag of weed all in the same trip- now that's something to debate!!!
QUIT your bitching, at least you only have to wait 3 days to buy a gun I'll be lucky if marijuana is legalized in my lifetime!



AT LEAST MAKE YOUR POINT VALID-UNLESS YOU'RE A PSYCHO, YOU ARE LEGALLY ABLE TO POSESS A FIREARM.
message 9/7249 1999-12-27 21:23:39 [save my place] [reply]
no1youknow
user #51849
34 posts
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in response to heathen:

You have a valid point heathen, and you are correct,
if nobody had them, then nobody would need them.
That, unfortunately perhaps, is just a pipe dream. Do you really think
that ALL the guns in the United States could be made to magically
disappear? Of course not. The problem with gun confiscation programs
is that they only serve to disarm the law-abiding public. Do you think
that criminals are going to turn in their guns just because they are
illegal? Most criminals that have guns have them illegally already!
They don't give a shit about them being legal or not. What do you think
would happen if only the criminal element had guns? Look at Washington D.C.
the "Murder Capital of America." Handguns are all but banned there and
concealed carry is completely illegal. Badguys run rampant and kill as
they please because only the police have the guns. In Kennesaw, Georgia,
it is the law that each homeowner must also own a gun. Guess what?
Armed, violent crime is virtually non-existant in Kennesaw.


You are also correct that many of our constitutional rights are being
usurped by the government. The war on drugs is nothing more than a breach
of the constitutional right to be secure in your person and property.
The constitution is strictly against illegal search and siezure. What
do you think these "no-knock" drug raids are? If six guys dressed in black
came crashing into my house in the middle of the night, I certainly
wouldn't think that they were police. I don't understand why they don't
crack down on the violent drug gangs that kill and maim for fun.
The police surely don't need to be busting some guy for having a joint
when there are crackheads gunning down old ladies for their social security checks.

If you think about what you said about the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
not being part of the Constitution, perhaps you should think again. Imagine
how much further they could have taken the war on drugs if there were no
Right to Keep and Bear Arms. The government could basically declare war
on the poor, inner-city dwellers and arrest/execute them en masse.
The first thing that the Nazis did when they took power was to disarm
the Jews. What happened next?

If you say that our government isn't
capable of killing people indescriminately, you are being naive. The war
on drugs has served to villify drug users and make it kinda OK when a
hispanic grandfather is accidentally killed in a no-knock raid on his
house because his grandson bought some pot. The same thing is now happening
to gun-owners. We are being villified by the government, the press, religion,
big business, etc. You and I are apparently birds of a feather, we should
support each other.

I would like to see the day when you could go into wal-mart and buy a
gun and a bag of pot. I think most drugs should be legalized and
regulated. And I've never even tried drugs, but most people I have known
that have used drugs (pot, acid, 'ludes) were peace-loving, non-violent
folks just like me. The bottom line in both of these arguements is that
people need to take responsibility for their actions. All actions, be it
driving, shooting, drinking, smoking, talking, etc.

You are right again that at least it is legal to possess a firearm.
Unfortunately, where I live I cannot carry a concealed pistol to protect
myself against criminals with guns. The problem is mostly with people's
perceptions of gun owners. Sarah Brady, Handgun Control Inc.,
Violence Policy Center, and others are trying to take away
a constitutionally guaranteed natural right of self-defense. Why should
my right to defend myself and my family end at my front door? If you're
not trying to hurt me or mine, I'm not going to try and hurt you. If someone
is trying to hurt you, perhaps with a gun to even the odds, I could
save your life. You will certainly be safer when criminals start thinking
that "maybe" you "could be" carrying a gun.
message 10/7249 1999-12-28 05:05:16 [save my place] [reply]
auroraskye-jax
no longer a member
subject: no subject
in response to no1youknow:
OK... so we will never agree guys... guns are bad and everyone knows it... b/c there are some pricks that insist that they are protection? you want to know something guys... you may all live in the middle of nowhere where guns are for hunting or what-not. I liev in a city where the prey is not usually an animal but a human being. You've heard of kids with guns... you've heard of bank robbers with guns...
you've heard of mailcarriers with guns... It isnt about the law or the person handling it... it's about the weapon... it is awful... it is killing innocent people way more than protecting them... can't you pro-gun people open your eyes already? Can't you see that your stubborness to protect yourselves with this deadly weapon is doing more harm than good? I guess you won't; until some thing happens to you or your loved ones... and i hope that never happens... I really hope you realize the fact before it is blatantly put in your face.
message 11/7249 1999-12-28 06:57:28 [save my place] [reply]
auroraskye-jax
no longer a member
subject: no subject
Sorry I guess I wasn't done... In response to the fact that I am helpless in an attack? That a baseball or a kitchen knife won't help me... You are probably right... except for the fact that you shouldn't act violent in the face of violence. You just simply hand over what the gun-carrying citizen with his protected right to bear arms wants. And the only reason I would be put in this position is because your right to bear arms incidentally gave this fine citizen the right to bear arms. Now isnt that ironic? If I was however forced to protect myself against someone with a gun I would most likely have to use my knowledge of self-defense, yes it is actually possible without a gun... And my great ability to run... like the wind b/c the gunman probably has no idea how to shoot the damned thing at least not with any accuracy... another way to protect yourself is by talking... yes gunman have ears... they usually have a purpose and they are usually just as scared as you are... there's how I would go about protecting myself without the use of a firearm. I guess people with guns just don't think about stuff like that or maybe they dont have the courage to face that situtation. In your mind you think you have an advantage by having a gun... in reality it may become your greatest handicap.
message 12/7249 1999-12-28 07:20:53 [save my place] [reply]
no1youknow
user #51849
34 posts
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in response to auroraskye-jax:

Aurora,

You say "guns are bad and everyone knows it." I say that guns are merely
tools, and it is people are bad. If you believe the Bible, there were once
only a handful of people on earth. Cain slaughtered his brother Abel.
Hatred, jelousy, envy, malice, evil, etc. are some of the reasons that
people are bad, not guns. People have been murdering other people for eons
before there were guns.Do you really think that Mother Theresa would have
been instantly transformed into a murdering lunatic if she touched a rifle?

You also say that "It isnt about the law or the person handling it" (the gun)
This is exactly the type of attitude that is getting violent criminals
released back onto the streets of your city. It *IS* about the person
handling it. It *IS* about personal responsibility. It *IS* about
self-defense. It *IS* about self-reliance.

I have heard of all the bad things that you bring up, but you are wrong.
Studies show that guns are used 4-5 times more often to defend an innocent's
life than used to kill an innocent. Usually the mere presence of a gun
is enough to scare off someone bent on harm. They're usually wimps, that's
why they use guns to bully defenseless people. The fact that you live
in the city certainly proves your point about people being prey. Having
legal posession of a gun would even the odds and might make some criminals
think twice before trying to rob someone.

I too hope nothing ever happens to you or a loved one by a criminal with a gun.
But if someone with a gun broke into your office and you were hiding
under your desk what thought would be going through your head?
A. I'm sure this guy is a victim of society, I feel sorry for him.
B. I hope he runs out of ammo before he finds me.
C. I wish I had a gun and could defend myself and my co-workers.

Do you think that the woman I mentioned in my previous post that is found
dead in an alley shouldn't be allowed to defend herself against a
rapist twice her size?
message 13/7249 1999-12-28 07:37:24 [save my place] [reply]
auroraskye-jax
no longer a member
subject: no subject
in response to heathen:
pick up the febuary edition of high times.. there is a very interesting article regarding legalization... apparently the governor of NM, Gary Johnson, shares our view on legalization...

LEGALIZATION***
Let us commence... I ask you this my friends... what the fuck is up with the fact that alcohol is legal and weed isnt? Why the fuck would someone deny the use of a drug that has proven medical benefits and endorse the use of a drug that can only cause medical problems? Why would a drug that makes you feel calm and relaxed be damned by the government while a drug that makes individuals violent be permitted? Why would materials from a plant be legal but the actual cultivation be illegal? Why is a plant that can stop the problem of deforestation be outlawed? You guys have an answer? If everyone who smoked pot, used hemp clothing and/or is an environmentalist would get out there and vote we would'nt be living in this screwed up society. We could save the trees, smoke some grass, and have some killer munchies afterwards to celebrate...

message 14/7249 1999-12-28 07:42:14 [save my place] [reply]
auroraskye-jax
no longer a member
subject: no subject
in response to no1youknow:

now you pull out the bible? lol funny you mention that- because it says thou shalt not kill---> heard thjat before? it's a commandment... and if you are a christian you should know that a commandment is the highest law in the land... it didnt say its ok if someone is threatening your life. so there goes your christianity bullshit. i went to private school, knew it'd come in handy.
and guess what you've actually struck a nerve...
this bullshit situation with someone breaking into my house or coming into my office wont happen- i have an alarm and i have locks... that will at least deter a common criminal... as for the rape situation you seem to be so insistent upon discussing, buy mace, buy one of those devices that lets out a loud sound that is sure to call attention, buy an electric shocker... lookie there.. but i guess you are too much of a cowboy... so you have your gun... i will have my peace of mind without one... but if its what you need to feel safe... damn the rest of us for being able to achive peace of mind with out a smith and wesson.
message 15/7249 1999-12-28 07:54:03 [save my place] [reply]
no1youknow
user #51849
34 posts
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in response to auroraskye-jax:

I'm having trouble replying because I keep getting a message that says that
I have a word that is more than 45 characters long. Don't know why it says that
because I don't have a word that long. Please bear with me.
message 16/7249 1999-12-28 09:15:33 [save my place] [reply]
no1youknow
user #51849
34 posts
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subject: no subject
Aurora,
Your use of sarcasm isn't lost on me, I just don't appreciate it with a subject this serious. The "gun-carrying citizen with his protected right to bear arms" you refer to is probably already a convict that has been released by a liberal judge. He doesn't have the right to keep and bear arms. He is a criminal. Good luck talking to him if his intention is to murder you. Good luck running away if he is faster than you and bigger than you. I'd rather not get shot in the back just in case the lunatic is a better shot than I anticipated. My firearm would not give me any advantage, just even the odds. Facing a situation like this while unarmed isn't courage, it's stupidity.

As far as the bible goes, I don't know it that well, but look up Exodus 22:2, it might be 2:22 though. It says that a man who kills an intruder in his home isn't a murderer. It is OK to kill if your life is being threatened. If you are a Christian, then your life is your most precious gift from God. Would you throw it away by not defending yourself? That is more of a waste of a life than if you would have killed your would-be killer.

Your ideas about having an electric shocker, mace, or a horn are good ideas. If you feel safe with that extent of protection, good for you. I have no problem with you doing that to achieve piece of mind. All I am asking is that you recognize that some wimps like me want to have the odds a little more even. Why should I let some slime-ball killer have the upper hand just because he has a gun illegally? I, a law-abiding, no criminal record, citizen of the US of A should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon after passing a background check, proficiency test, etc. I don't damn you for your choice of defense, and I am glad you have one. Please don't damn me for my choice of defense. I am not a cowboy, I don't even own a pistol. I just care about the laws and the constitution and my family.

Oh, I'm also asking for you to recognize the fact that it isn't the gun that is evil. Police and soldiers carry guns, does this make them evil? I hope you can keep an open mind and not be clouded by emotionalism. A friend of mine used to think like you do. Her name is Sandy, she is from Chicago and she has a web page you might want to see. The url is more than 45 characters so I'm having trouble posting it.
message 17/7249 1999-12-28 09:37:27 [save my place] [reply]
no1youknow
user #51849
34 posts
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Here it is in pieces: www.angelfire.com/ il2/imconverted/ il2/imconverted/ Default.htm
Take out the spaces and it should link you.
message 18/7249 1999-12-28 09:40:09 [save my place] [reply]
badmotherfucker
user #7843
15 posts
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in response to auroraskye-jax:
I think Gov. Jesse Ventura put it best. He basically said that a gun is a tool. Take away that tool, and people will find another one. Let's look at Ireland. No guns there worked out really well. They switched over to bombing instead. Now instead of accidently killing 2 or 3 people, they kill 20 or 30 people. Good solution.
message 19/7249 1999-12-28 10:07:57 [save my place] [reply]
ripe-with-decay
user #760
2632 posts
8 karma points
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in response to badmotherfucker:

I'm sorry, but I agree that guns shouldn't be outlawed. Take away our right to carry a weapon, and motherfuckers will still carry them, and other motherfuckers will find other ways to kill you. Guns haven't always been around, but murder and killing has. A lot of drugs are illegal, but it doesn't stop people from taking them or selling them. Did alcohol prohibition work? Nope, sorry....neither does drug prohibition and neither will gun prohibition. Guns are bad, but so are nuclear weapons. They are both here to stay, no matter how much we don't like them.

Another thing....Texas has one of the lowest murder rates. Do you think all those good ole boys walk around without their heat? Hell fucking no. Would you pull a gun on a Texan? I rest my case....

RWD
message 20/7249 1999-12-28 17:11:01 [save my place] [reply]
heathen
user #7410
13 posts
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in response to auroraskye-jax:
Yeah, I saw that issue,too bad more politicians don't have the balls to go against the grain and be honest for once. Weed is harmless. The only reason it is not legal is because the government can't figure out just how they could keep citizens from growing it themselves in order to make the profits soley federal.

message 21/7249 1999-12-29 05:10:17 [save my place] [reply]
heathen
user #7410
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in response to ripe-with-decay:
I'm living in Texas now, but far from a Texan, I suppose - since I don't have a gun, and I fuck with everyone. hehe

message 22/7249 1999-12-29 05:12:37 [save my place] [reply]
kaine
user #1583
45 posts
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in response to heathen: I just read your first response on your issue and can see that you have clearly misunderstood the second ammendment. IT IS TO BE USED AS A TOOL TO RESIST OPPRESION BY THE GOVERNMENT. Though you are quite right, if there were no guns, we'd be safe. How the fuck are you going to pull that stunt off? There are such things as gun trafficking. So 12 guys with semi automatic weapons could quite possibly loot an entire small town without the resistance because they already shot the cops. Real smart.

message 23/7249 1999-12-29 10:34:13 [save my place] [reply]
heathen
user #7410
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in response to kaine:

I am far from a disillusioned fool preaching anti-violence nor am I saying that any more of our rights should be denied. I AM HOWEVER stating (yet again) that there are plenty of other ways that "our"
government fucks us over, do you people REALLY think that gun control or the second ammendment are the only topics worthy of a political oriented b.b. ???
the only "stunt" that I'm trying to pull off is a change of subject.
message 24/7249 1999-12-30 07:57:33 [save my place] [reply]
kaine
user #1583
45 posts
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in response to heathen: Okay, I agree with you on the point that we are continously fucked by the government. But 80% of the people on this server also think that. But the way you presented your arguement originally made it sound as if you were the clueless preacher of non-violence. My appologies...

message 25/7249 2000-01-03 06:39:47 [save my place] [reply]
happyguy
user #41494
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Today, my science teacher was telling me about how there are "plenty of arguments for both creationism and for evolution." When I asked her to tell me one of these arguments for creationism, she says "Well, many people say that the reason darwinism must be wrong is because there is no conceiveable way that something as complex as humans could have evolved from bacteria." To this I responded "That's an argument against darwinism, not for creationism."
So, to get to the point after what seems like a pointless story, an argument against something is not an argument for it's opposite. You say the government abuses you, perhaps it does (I agree with you, just not in such extremes). Consider, for a moment, the postion of our government. Do you think that it is the intent of these officials that YOU elect to abuse you? What is their intent? It is, only to stay in office. Or at least for most of them. Those that are not concerned about staying in office will probably be less likely to abuse you. Therefore, I have two points. First, why are these people, who depend on YOUR vote, abusing you, and did it ever occur to you why they might be doing that. And, secondly, if you're not part of the solution, most likely you're part of the problem. Think about that.
Mad that people are so anti government (make your own, read the constitution...)
-Dan
message 26/7249 2000-01-04 13:23:39 [save my place] [reply]
heathen
user #7410
13 posts
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subject: no subject
#1>>There has been no one worthy of MY vote since I've been old enough to vote.Therefore I can bitch all I want to about the SELFSERVING,HIPPOCRITICAL,EGOTISTICAL,IDIOTS that YOU voted for!!
#2>> I PRIDE MYSELF ON BEING PART OF THE PROBLEM!

Also, I DO NOT think that a majority (which can exist of as little as 51 % of the voting public) should overshadow the minority's (which can consist of as much as 49% of the voting public) opinions/views. They should BOTH be taken into consideration, especially when making decisions that effect EVERYONE!! OTHERWISE WE HAVE MAJORITY TYRANNY------NOT MAJORITY RULE!!
message 27/7249 2000-01-04 19:16:31 [save my place] [reply]
happyguy
user #41494
42 posts
1 karma points
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subject: no subject
in response to heathen:

Gee, that's great. I'm not old enough to vote, so it doesn't really appply to me...
In any event, if you want to form a government that represents all people, form a coalition. If you find it to much work to petition your government for change, then, again, how can you have a write to complain. And now, what is this problem of which you are so proud of being a part?
-Dan
message 28/7249 2000-01-05 13:34:44 [save my place] [reply]
fryeness
no longer a member
subject: no subject
John McCain gobbles chode.
message 29/7249 2000-01-05 23:40:35 [save my place] [reply]
fryeness
no longer a member
subject: no subject
Rhino chode.
message 30/7249 2000-01-05 23:40:53 [save my place] [reply]

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